(Update: He answered, he answered! I love it when people answer their interviews, it’s like Christmas. Thank you so much, Gabe, for your elegant, eloquent, informative answers. I really appreciate your time.)
I’ve been wanting to cover the subject of the Bible in one of my interviews. Happily for me, we have a very decent number of accessible authorities on the subject in The Family International. I was trying think of who would be a good one to interview and then I remembered Gabe Iowa (perhaps most commonly known as the Antichrist. He lent his face to the face of evil that so that by his sacrifice we might have ourselves an Endtime Music Video).
He lived close to our Home back in the early 2000’s for a couple of years and used to come over for weekly Bible studies to give classes. One time I was so convicted by one class he gave on the importance of studying the Bible that I determined in my 14 year old heart to read the entire Bible in one week. I think I gave up somewhere in the first half of Exodus.
But anyhoo, he left an impression on me and I believe he’ll brighten my blog with his words of wisdom. So I’m putting myself out there once again, taking that chance and believing in faith that as I take one step, the Lord will take two for me and inspire Gabe to answer.
Interview guidelines found here.
Because I haven’t met any first-generation member of The Family who doesn’t have a fascinating story in answer to this question – I must ask it first; How did you meet and join The Family International, and can you give a little (or big, or as much as you have time for) chronology of countries lived in, for how long, what you did in each one. etc?
Hi Jules,
First of all, let me say that I am certainly honored to have the opportunity to do an interview for your site.
I first met members of the Family International (hereafter just “the Family”) at a rented farm house in Iowa where my sister and friends were living in a loosely organized commune. I say loosely because in spirit, it was pretty close – and everyone there felt very much a part of that little community – however, some of those living there were bearing more than their share of the load.
This was probably due more to the inabilities of some of the folks living there – myself included. At the time, I had gone through a number of fairly traumatic experiences – having my first steady live-in girl friend, and breaking up, almost going crazy concerning the then unpopular war in Vietnam – and the cultural and social roller coaster ride that the entire nation and much of the world was experiencing. It was 1973.
I had just come back from the West Coast where I had been living and working in Los Angeles at a factory job – employment that had convinced me that there must be something more substantial to dedicate my life to.
I had quit my job there – and had hitchhiked up the West Coast looking for “something”.
It was about that time that I had gotten word that my brother had joined the Family in Chicago – and I had more or less decided that it was my mission to go and convince him otherwise – as I had not had very good experiences in the answers I had received from congregational groups when I asked them how I could live my life (I had already been reading the Bible a bit by this time). I was of the mind that the only way to find any real truth would be to separate ourselves and try to understand the Bible on our own.
On my way back to Iowa I stopped in a rustic village on the shores of the Pacific Ocean north of San Francisco called Casper by the Sea. While I was there I went to a movie playing in a nearby town – and without knowing what I was going to be seeing that night – I saw a film called “Brother Sun and Sister Moon” – the story of St. Francis of Assisi. I think that this was the first time in my life that I believed that I had truly found the answer to what my life was supposed to be about – and that was to become a beggar for Jesus.
Soon after arriving back in Iowa I began my slow transition of joining a Family home – and I first joined in Chicago in November of 1973.
I remained in the United States with the Family for 7 years, traveling from Chicago to a brief stay at the Kentucky Farm – then to San Antonio, Texas for about 10 months. From there I moved to Eugene, Oregon – then to Oakland, California and for a time in San Francisco – on to New Orleans and to the New York Border Base where I had my first stint as a “shepherd”. From there to Birmingham, Alabama – New Orleans, again. – Atlanta; Cherry Hill, New Jersey – then to Los Angeles, a trip up the coast to Washington – and then a trip all the way back to Georgia – up to Newark, New Jersey – back to New Orleans, again. – up to Bellingham, Washington where we (I was married by this time) boarded a flight to Manila, Philippines. The date of arrival was January 1, 1980.
I lived in Manila for 7 years where I helped deliver a lot of babies through teaching natural childbirth classes – caused a lot of trouble – and worked in our fledgling video productions making home video programs for our children and interviewing Family members at area meetings. In the Philippines I met my second wife – to whom I am still married.
We then moved to Bangkok, Thailand where we had a ministry on the ships to the sailors – a lot of whom were Filipino – and then, after a very interesting time in Russia in 1992 – to Japan where I was able to continue to work in video productions at a large international school and studios. During this time I was visiting Thailand for visa trips until I was able to bring the rest of my family to Japan. We left Japan in 1998 for Italy where we lived and worked for a couple of years.
In 2000 we returned to the US and we have lived in Texas, California, Oregon, Alabama, and Iowa – where we live now.
I have done a lot of video work over the years, a lot of Bible teaching, outreach with music and theatre, raised our 6 children – and been everything from the doorkeeper to what I am now – nobody.
At what point did you get interested in The Bible? I know lots of first-generation Family members and nearly all of’m know the memory book and set card, etc. but clearly at some point you transitioned from basic Bible knowledge to Bible Buff status. Was it something you were interested from the day you joined?
My interest in the Bible began when I was about 20 – before I joined the Family. I really didn’t know much about it before that – and although I had read a number of books in high school and in curiosity – I really didn’t read that much until after high school. During my first (and only) year in a university – I met a lot of people who did read – so I started reading more then – stuff like “The Lord of the Rings” – some C.S. Lewis – including “The Chronicles of Narnia” – and some Buddhist and Hindu stuff. The latter wasn’t clear at all to me – but I really liked C.S. Lewis.
About this time I was beginning to learn guitar too – and since I was an avid music fan – I had a lot of influence from the music of that time – particularly The Beatles, and a few bands you never heard of like Poco, The Soft Machine, and a local band called Rural who were really fun musicians.
My brother had gone into the US Army, and when he got out we moved to Los Angeles (where I worked in the factory) – and we started reading the Bible together there. However, the Bible was so deep that I really didn’t get much from it at first – but I did open it now and then and read.
It was when I visited a Family outreach center in Chicago that the Bible really came to life. I had gone there to find out if I wanted to join – and a brother sat with me to answer my questions about life, what were we here for, what it meant to have eternal life – etc. … and the way he did it was to open the Bible and show me verses. I was pretty amazed at how he answered all my questions from the Bible.
It was about this time that I was reading Family literature – and that made everything a lot clearer to me. The literature more or less digested the Bible for me – so that by the time I did join and started memorizing verses and chapters – I had a better grasp of what the Bible was saying and what it was all about.
I think I also benefited from some movies that brought the Bible to life for me – including “Godspell” which was a stage play really, and later “Jesus of Nazareth”.
I think my real interest in the Bible developed over a fairly long period of time to where I now feel that I have a much more mature attitude about it. I think it is the most important literature in the world – bar none. The Bible never fails to fascinate me in that the more I read it – the more it becomes. With most books if you had to read them over and over – you just couldn’t do it – because the content is limited to the story and perhaps some suspense, or drama, or character studies, or moral lessons – intrigue, whatever; but once you have read the book and know the ending – it can become boring to read it again. Not so with the Bible. I find deeper truths there with each passing year.
What faction of the Bible (eschatology, history, a particular Bible study etc.) interests you the most at this point?
I am very interested in how the Bible reveals what is coming in the future – and this has been a primary interest for me from day one.
I would have to say, though, that my greatest interest is in the Gospels. Here we have a mere 150 pages – a couple days reading for a scholar – and yet the truth and understanding contained in these pages surpasses and transcends all schools of thought throughout the world.
Additionally, the Bible or parts of it have not only been translated into a reported 2,454 languages – but it has also been received by people reading and speaking those languages as standing on its own in regards to the principles and truths set forth in its pages.
That to me is a pretty impressive record.
What’s more – the writers of the Gospels, (except John who would not boil in oil) – died for what they had written there. I can see dying for some ideas, or some people – but I cannot see why anyone would give their life for something they knew was untrue or fabricated – and certainly not in the manner that these writers died.
And more than that? – the people to whom they preached the stories of the Gospels likewise were willing to give their lives rather than recant. And not just the immediate converts – but this has held true down through the centuries in nations and cultures across the globe.
Although I am fascinated by the eschatology of the Bible – I believe that some of the simplest passages offer the greatest insights; and power, life, and light.
In The Family International, there’s major emphasis on things like prophecy, direct revelation and fresh word from the Lord. A biblical foundation is also emphasized as vital, but in actuality and from personal experience, solid Bible study and memorization can be very easy to miss for long periods of time. I think this is especially true for those of us who grew up in a post-Charter environment and (perhaps I can only speak for myself here) never really got in the habit of Bible study. Why is Bible study important, in your opinion?
I believe that Bible study is important for the same reason any study is important – and that is simply that until you spend a volume of time and effort on any pursuit – you most likely will not benefit much from it.
Bible study per se is just like an athlete conditioning himself for the race. But conditioning and running the race are two different things. The real athlete experiences exhilaration and responses in his mind and body that would be impossible unless he had passed the point of mere conditioning to the point of being able to compete.
I think the same is true of the Bible.
Unless you spend some time there – you will never pass the point of training, and truly run with the wind.
The other day I was giving a class on this to some folks who have been pastors – and we talked about how important it was to know the Bible – and particularly the Gospels, and I asked them the question, “Can you faithfully recount all the parables of Jesus?”
I am not sure that I could – but I do feel that each of those parables is worth knowing. How much of the Bible do I really know and understand? How much of the Bible can I share with others from my own realization and understanding of the truths that are there? Can I quote it – like a doctor can name all the bones in the human skeleton, or a geologist all the various rock formations or a zoologist his animal kingdom?
Unless you force yourself to study – you will never experience the wonder of suddenly connecting the dots so to speak. These few words have been the source and inspiration for countless songs, paintings, poetry, and philosophy, – whatever the field or persuasion; the Bible has been an influence on it, and in some cases, the greatest and most enduring influence.
It deserves a good read now and then.
What are you current favorite books and characters of the Bible (not counting Jesus) and why?
I really like the Gospels. I love certain passages of the New Testament – the writings of Peter are outstanding. When I first read the Bible and looked at the few pages of 1st and 2nd Peter – my immediate reaction was that he didn’t have much to say. I don’t think that I have begun to scratch the surface when it comes to Peter – he is really deep.
I love the book of Hebrews – because it shows so clearly how rules just don’t work (and I never liked rules). The book of Hebrews really humbles me too – because you can see the great work of God through Jesus Christ there – and the High Priest that is never beyond our petitions and our need for Him.
My favorite characters I would have to call the “Whisperers” – which would also include the events where the spirit world was opened up and the connection was made to men. This includes all the passages where angels appeared.
I am a firm believer in the reality of the spirit world – both good and bad spirits – and I have had a lot of personal experiences along these lines – so I am grateful that the Bible is very clear on the spiritual man, the spiritual world around us – and our sojourn here in preparation for our indescribable life when we pass on to the “other side”.
I don’t know if this question will make sense or not, but here goes: It’s likely that I just haven’t read enough of the Old Testament to know what I’m talking about, but what is the relevance of huge amount of information on the laws and codes of the Jews in the Torah? It seems to me like there’s a couple general big messages of the OT; God created the Universe, man sinned and separated himself from God, God chose a people to carry the lineage from which Jesus would come, and prophets prophesied of Jesus.
Christianity seems to rest primarily on the person of Jesus and his resurrection. If this is the foundation of Christianity, why is there included in The Bible SO much detailed background information on Jewish law? I glance through the Torah and it seems to me like it could have easily been a lot more condensed. I know all those rules about clean and unclean stuff is part of Judaism, but for Christianity, why is it important that all those laws and detailed descriptions of when one should be considered unclean until the evening, etc. are included in the Bible?
Well, here goes – so pray for me on this one. Before I comment, I will confess that I am not a very apt student of the OT – except for those portions that deal with the spirit world and the revelation of the establishment of the Kingdom of Christ on Earth.
I view the Old Testament as a record of failure – not of God failing, but in mankind failing in every way to redeem himself by himself.
Even though God gave the law in detail – and in the Law was righteousness – it all failed because none of us could keep it. I think that unless God allowed mankind to sort of grind it out – year after year, century after century, millennium after millennium of failure – until God finally quit speaking to them for over 300 years – that even when Christ came, there would have been some who would have stood up and said, “Hey God, you just didn’t give us a chance to prove ourselves!”
Even now, under the grace and mercy of Jesus Christ – some are still trying to please God by dutiful law keeping. It doesn’t work!
And there is something else there in the OT that is very precious, and that is the beauty of the redeemed and repentant – like the Psalms, or parts of Isaiah – where in the midst of destruction and defeat – the human spirit cries out to God for salvation.
I guess this is why I spend a lot of my time with the Gospels – the good news that grace and truth are come unto us.
In your (I’m imagining) 30 plus years of sharing your faith, what are some of the most common objections to Christianity you’ve encountered and what are your answers?
I think the most common objection to Christianity is that the individual is already full of something else – usually themselves.
This can be manifest in a lot of different ways – but I think it is often just as Jesus said, “He hath filled the hungry with good things, but the rich hath he sent empty away.”
One thing that I have learned and been taught, and that I believe to be true – is that it is impossible for people to refute or deny your personal testimony. When you can look them in the eye and say, “This is my experience and this is what happened to me, or is presently taking place in my life.”
When someone asks me how I know Jesus is in my heart I can tell them, “Because I was here when He moved in.”
